You’ve been around for awhile but have never really dropped any J-Force project or received as much credit as you deserve for producing. Your new project, Cadillac Respect, showcases your talent as a producer. Did you feel it was finally time to be recognized?

Definitely. I’ve been making beats for a long time, since 1990. The SP-1200 was taught to me by Ski Beatz. He used to bring it around with him and back in the day, all my friends met him. He would stay at one friend’s house and then stay at mine. Everywhere he went he brought the SP and he raided everybody’s parents’ record collection. I watched him program it and work it. Since I was a drummer by nature, I felt I could definitely program some really hot samples and drums into the machine. So yeah, I’ve been doing it for a hot minute.

You remix a lot of classics on Cadillac Respect, and it’s rare that I enjoy remixes.

I call them “revisits.” A “remix” is technically readjusting treble and bass and EQs in that aspect. But we’ve been using the word “remix” on the DJ level a little loosely. To me a revisit, and there’s actually a definition on the inside of the album, a “revisit” is basically calling back a classic accapella, with no disrespect to the original composition, and bringing a new composition totally.

It’s wild. People say the first single I put out was “Bullseye.” I was recording out of Englewood, New Jersey with Ski Beatz and it was next to Dance Floor Distribution, it was a record distributor and there was a studio inside the record distributor spot and that’s where I originally met back up with Ski. I originally met Ski at WBLS, maybe the late ‘80s. My DJ used to be Kevvy Kev and he was on Saturday nights on WBLS and Pete Rock was on Friday. They did the “Marley Marl in Control” show.

So I met Ski in the lobby of WBLS and later on caught up with him at this spot in Jersey and that’s where I recorded a song called “Dippity,” that I’d just seen on YouTube recently. But the A-side wasn’t my mix. The b-side was “Dippity” and I sampled Lou Reed’s “Walk on the Wild Side,” which Tribe sampled at the same time. I took some really hot drums, I think Public Enemy used it on “Don’t Believe the Hype.” What else did I take? I took “Doo-daa dippity” from Black Sheep’s “The Choice is Yours.”

So that’s really the first single I ever really did. That came out, I believe in ’90 or ’92. I don’t have the record in front of me but that’s really the first record I ever really did. And then “Bullseye” came out in ’93. I failed to put the year on my singles for after “Bullseye” and “Runnin’ on E.” It was kind of open arms for New York underground radio. Stretch Armstrong played whatever I did. DJ Premier, whenever he did an all-star weekend, he played both my singles. I had a little sticker on both of my singles “Live and Direct from the House of Hits” because Marley mixed both of my singles. Those were the first three singles that I did, from ’93 to ’96 I put out my own stuff. “Pink Chicken” was the third single that I never came out with that’s on Cadillac Respect. But I never came out with the version that’s on Cadillac Respect. It’s actually a revisit as well. The original is on YouTube. I took Peter Frampton’s “Do You Feel Like We Do?’s” bassline with Harvey Mandel’s “Cristo Redentor.”

And that was the original mix and then I chopped up a Shirley Bassey loop and put some crazy drums on it and I did a revisit of my own track f¬or the Cadillac Respect project, because it is a revisit project, and keeping with the theme, I put one of mine on there. Basically if you’re a DJ and you appreciate mixology, you’re going to love the album and the way I seamed the interludes together. It’s for real hip-hop heads.

How do you know when you have a revisit right?

How I always make beats is usually to know the beat is hot, I’ll usually throw O.C.’s ‘Time’s Up” over it and I’ll test it with a hot accapella. You know when it’s right. If it complements the vocals and it doesn’t sound anything like the original, then I feel like you got it. If it’s not anything better or brings anything different to the original, I don’t think you really should touch it.

“Time’s Up” is a great standard.

The fact of the matter is “Time’s Up” is such a strong record that you have to come with a lot of heat to do that one over. As far as I’m concerned, it’s almost cheating because he sounds dope over almost anything. And if the revisit is not going to do what the original does, then I leave it alone. That’s why you didn’t see me come with this one here. But that song is a classic, period, the end. But it is tough. You know when the formula is right after you’ve been doing this for so many years and if you can come forth with something new and paint a new picture. And the revisit, I altered the lyrics too to do different things. I started off the Ghostface one with the hook and the “Oh my God” sample at the beginning of the Buckshot one. It’s a whole new formula and a new picture. That’s what I feel you have to do to really do a revisit correctly. It can’t be the same formula as the original recipe.

Are there other songs you look at as untouchable for a revisit?

I would say yes, absolutely, “The Symphony” being a good example. In fact, when I met up with Marley for one of the first times, I met him at a record store in Rockland County and we were both digging for records. I asked him why he picked that beat for “The Symphony 2.” You out of all people, take the Otis Redding again. I really wish the remix had a version from the original Otis Redding “Hard to Handle” sample. I actually said that to him and Marley appreciated the honesty and then we started to hang out and get tight after that.

It takes some balls to say that to Marley Marl the first time meeting him.

(laughs) Well, you know what? Honesty is the best policy to me and that’s all I am, nothing but blunt and up front. A lot of people might not like that and appreciate that. Either you want to sit around the roundtable and tell fairy tales or you want to just deal with the truth. The truth of the matter is “The Symphony 2” is nothing compared to “The Symphony.” But you’re talking to a guy where the beat is first to me. A lot of people get into the lyrics and what they’re saying. I don’t really care what they’re saying if the beat’s not hot. If the beat is hot then I want to hear what you’re saying. “The Symphony 2,” the beat was not hot to me and that’s the point. If Marley didn’t want to talk to me from there on out, that’s fine, but we all know that’s the truth. (laughs)

If fans tuned into Future Flavas, they’ll know you. What were those days like?

That was a platform for me to really flex and hone my production skills, you know, thought that show. I would rock the two SP 1200s with the mixer in between and then of course you got Pete Rock on the turntables. It was magical. Sunday nights, the show came on from 10-11 and it was the time when I was really blossoming as a beatsmith and I was fortunate to have Marley actually mix the singles that I put out with my own vocals. It was pretty cool.

Marley moved up to Chestnut Ridge, New York and I was upstate at the time and that’s how I really ran into him. He would ride around in a red Marc 7 around and he had “Marley” plates on it so it was kind of sticking out like a sore thumb. After awhile, I was invited to do the Future Flavas show with him and Pete Rock and after the show, that’s where I would record these artists that were guests. We would record them after over J-Force beats and I was in full rotation of most of the shows from ’99 to 2001. And I actually was with Marley when he changed from Hot 97 to Power 105. I was with that whole transfer. And then I kind of fell off. I didn’t really go to every show anymore and I would up actually leaving and then I popped up doing some beat stuff for documentaries and networks.

When everything was all good, what were some of your highlights?

Well, during the high points of the show, I would say it was around 2000, I was called by a music publishing company that Jay-Z’s protégé was feeling on one of the tracks that leaked out on my CD. That was Jaz-O. I went to Masters at Work to record this Jaz-O record that later became “King’s County.” To me, that’s where people would say, “We didn’t know you did that.” A lot of people didn’t know I did Future Flavas. I was just in the background with exclusives and SP beats. But the King’s County record was picked up by Fat Beats and I wasn’t credited on that. I lost a lot of stuff for awhile. That’s the nature of the beast. It’s the music industry. I’ve paid dues that I don’t even want to disclose in this conversation but you know some other stuff that I did, for sure, that I had to deal with.

I always felt that I gave you my pinky but I still had a whole hand to give and now, hopefully with the Cadillac Respect and the reception of websites, if people embrace it, I got a lot to give, man. I could be the guy that brings it back to the essence of New York City underground. I’m not really interested in crossing over. I’ve bought albums for the Premier cuts on the album, not the radio records. If I heard one track that was underground, I bought the whole album. I’m trying to be the album cut guy. Everyone is crossing over to some Golden Era-type stuff, and if it’s gonna stay where it’s at, I’ll be that street credible guy all day long. I’ll make those territory records all day long.

Do you think a lot of the younger artists rocking over ‘90s sounding beats is authentic appreciation or reaching for a gimmick?

It’s tricky because a lot of people think that I’m stuck in a time warp, but I feel like history will always repeat and if you look at the true “Golden Era” of hip-hop, I mean, I’ve been listening since Soulsonic Force records and Malcolm McLaren and Man Parrish and all those instrumental records that were from Britain that people were breakdancing too. If you think about it, I think the culmination of the Golden Era as a genre, it was definitely the ‘90s era and if I already existed in that era and that era is what we keep going back to, then why can’t that era exist again? We’ve been talking about it coming back for years. Is 2012 going to be the resurgence of that? Then let’s go. If not, then I’ll still be here and stuck in that time warp for when it does lift off again. I kind of look at myself as an untapped reservoir or music and an endless sea of music. I have DAT discs and old Adidas sneaker boxes full forever.

Are you going to release those?

I got at least a fifteen, twenty year run right now. If it was to resurge again, I’m right there.

What would it take for someone to get a J-Force beat?

Okay, great question. I’m really feeling Roc Marciano, hard. Marcberg, I’m a big U.N. fan. I’m into mic-ripping vocals and braggadocio. I’m into story-telling, of course, but I’m not into champagne-popping music. I stopped listening to mainstream radio from ’98, ’99. I don’t even know what Drake looks like, no disrespect. I’m really, like, so to the left of mainstream right now that I don’t even care to be mainstream. I think that’s a lot of girl scout hip-hop. Like, when people say, “Do you like the beat?” they mean, “Would you buy it?” and I wouldn’t buy a lot of it that’s out there. I don’t know who’s calling the shots as far as what becomes mainstream but I think hip-hop has gradually descended from 1997, 1998 to the present day.

I’ve done a slew of records with Killa Sha and Jojo Pellegrino and basically if you got gut-wrenching lyrics, I’m interested. Give me a shout. It won’t even be hard to get with a J-Force beat, but I will reserve the right to be selective.

I just want to keep my ear to the grindstone and I am less interested in the mainstream unless you’re a Christina Aguilera and you think you got some words for myself. I could see Mary J. Blige on some of my records. I always loved the meshing of R&B and I gotta give it to guys like Pete Rock and Kevvy Kev. They kind of started that back in the BLS era. They were putting Mary J. accapellas over rugged-ass beats. I love the singing over hard beats, but as far as the lyrics being Cristal-popping, eh, that’s more for the skinny jean era and the backpackers. That’s not my cup of tea at all. No disrespect. I mean, if that’s your thing, hey, I’m not hating on it. It’s not my thing.

You use the SP 1200 for your beats. What is it about that machine that brings music alive for you?

I really like the way it spits out drums. I like the way it swings without even using swing. I also like how what I put into it, it spits it out even hotter, like if I grab a snare from a random record, the way I sample the snare, the way I EQ the snare into the machine gets the machine to spit it out fuller and thicker than the original form. I would like to see the original SP 1200 with 20 second sample time. I wouldn’t even need the minute sample time. I also came up with ways to fit much more information into the machine. I get more than ten seconds worth out of it anyway, but I feel like less is more in every aspect. As far as production, it’s kind of tight. Let’s keep the emphasis on lyrics and keep the beat hard and basic. That’s really my formula. I don’t really deviate much.

Can you take us through the making of a J-Force beat?

You know, I used to start with the loop and then as soon as I chopped the loop or whatever sounds I want as the melody part, as soon as I get that part loaded, it’s very easy to add drums. Nowadays, I have tons of drum disks so all I really do is thumb through the vinyl on the Technics and sometimes I have a CD. I’ll load up a drum disk and just play a segment and actually place the needle over different parts and have the drums playing and then the loop second. It’s really either or. I do this on the spot. Also, I’ve been into comprising all the loops that I hear on a given day. I’ll just do burn CDs, I call them, where I’ll just have stuff that I like the way they sound and put them on the turntable and burn them to a disk. I’ll just collect stuff that I like the way it sounds and save it for a later date and I’ll just have tons of loops from the turntables and the way I would want them to sound as the end result.

To me, that’s also a part of producing music and changing the tune of the way a record was originally recorded. On the Technics 1200, the green is the way it was recorded. I don’t necessarily like the way tones of a note where in it’s original form. It may have wandered plus right, negative eight, plus two. I’ll save my burn CDs and use them for a rainy day when you got beat block and you can’t hear a beat. I’ll just pop one of those in because I got tons of those too. I’ll pop one of those in. I label it with a date and I wrap the CD in a piece of paper from wherever I got the loops from so everyone can get their sample credit if it ever came out and became something, so I’ll know where I got it.

I used to just fish through vinyl and I could still do that, but mainly I got burn CDs of stuff that I like and wonder why I never did nothing with that and then I’ll load up a drum disk and figure out what drums sound right with that. I’ll loop my burn and then I’ll just keep marinating on the drums, going through snares and maybe popping in a new disk. That’s my formula nowadays. It’s easier for me. I could also go to a studio session and make them up on the spot.

How I’ve actually been working with rappers at present is I would ask them two questions. Who are you feeling right now hard? The Doors, the Temptations, and then what kind of music is it? Is it ballads? I kind of pick the rappers’ heads and if it’s a melancholic feel, I know what loops to play them and if it’s something else, I’ll know what to play them. It saves time and I can make them a custom beat. Production is the graduation of DJing. If you can play something that a crowd feels then you can tailor something for an artist that they feel.

Are you at your best when you’re making something custom for an artist?

I definitely have the catalogue. Here’s the deal. I’ve been fortunate to play beats in sessions and you’ll want two of the three. I can’t even bombard these guys with seventeen or twenty beats. I can’t even hit them with beat CDs anymore. If I feel the rapper, it takes twenty minutes to say, “Hey, I think you need this. You’re gonna like this.” That’s usually exactly how it happens. It has become a lot easier. I also hone those kinds of skills at Future Flavas. You had to be able to play stuff for people and have them like it in ten minutes. That’s cool. Not everybody is going to love a J-Force beat and if they do, not everybody is for a J-Force beat. It can’t be a forced issue, in my opinion. It has to be right, but I’m willing to work with grassroots up to established artists. If you’re tight, you’re tight and we can rock

What was it like working with Jaz-O?

I was actually working for a music publishing company at the time, Reach Global. They actually started doing Chuck D and Flava Flav’s Public Enemy catalogue. Years ago, I used to fish on my computer for writers that weren’t signed to publishing deals, like writers on Eminem records. So one day I got a call from one of the writers I worked for and we ended up publishing “The Originators” record and that was Jaz-O and Jay-Z and Jaz-O jumped over one of my beats. They called me and said they had good news and bad news. They said how much it was paying upfront and how much on the backend. We all know we’re never going to see the backend. It was $1400 on the frontend and on the backend, which I never received, which is all right. I never received the credit, which is not all right.

Fat Beats came out with it. DJ Clark Kent had the A-side of the single. I don’t believe “King’s County” even made his Immobilarie album and I don’t know why. A lot of people ask me why and I have no idea. But the bad news is I had to show up at the studio session 24 hours after I got the call and it was no problem. Jaz-O was there and we had no idea what the hook was going to be. I believe he wrote his lyrics on the spot and I did all the little ear candy drops around his lyrics and he looked at me and asked what we were going to do for the hook. I said we could Run-DMC the hook and he could say something and I could cut something. I didn’t have my rare accapellas that I liked to cut, like my Mobb Deep and Raekwon records. I ran out and came back within an hour, still on the clock, and Jaz-O actually did compliment me on my studio etiquette and he couldn’t believe how we brought that record home in six hours. The engineer was a monster Japanese kid. It was really one of my favorite moments recording anything. That was around 2000, 2001 and a lot of people, I would tell them that I made that record and they would really jump back. No one really knew. I got so many more things like that. I’m basically an untapped resource to this day.

What was it like working with Killa Sha?

Killa Sha was my dog. I miss him so much. Rest in Peace. He did so much for my career and the documentary side of me. He actually brought me to Quincy Jones III and that took me to doing the Rock the Bells Wu-Tang movie and that got me a call from Bling, that went on the network and then off the network. VH1 pulled it. It was real cerebral and about the real blood diamonds. He started all of that. I did four records with Sha. I did “Black Dracula” and actually Marley got the credit for it. I had to correct one of the blogs that posted it. I did “Raging Bull.” That was actually blogged too. I have a song called “Analyze” that came out later and now I believe my man Phantom is working on a Killa Sha release and “Raging Bull” will come out on that.

I’m trying to collect some Sha lyrics for something new and I’m actually working on something with Killa Sha and Tame One. It was recorded posthumous and I got the accapella. I talked to Phantom about recording something new. It’s gonna be special. He’s my boy. We used to vibe out on the Future Flavas show and I really miss that guy. I was fortunate enough to get a couple in with him. Some stuff might still come out. We have to drop it later. That’s if this real stuff comes back. Hopefully there’s a resurgence and the younger crowd has to hopefully get turned onto it first. That’s why I came with Cadillac Respect, to hopefully educate the young ones.

Will we hear more from J-Force in the future?

100%. I’m tired of laying. I got a couple of other projects going on already. I got myself a Mac computer. I can record in my laboratory now, which used to just be a pre-production spot. But now with technology, I got the Mac and I record everything in Garage Band. All of the stuff on Cadillac Respect was Cubase and Pro Tools. I got another project that I’m loading into that and you should be hearing a lot more from J-Force in the years to come.

Will you always use the SP 1200?

100%. I’ll never stop using that. As a matter of fact, there was a show that I remember DJ Premier coming to and him telling Marley that the thing with me on the machine is that you could never tell what equipment I’ve used. I said to him, “Hey, Premier, it’s all in the hi-hat pattern. It’s all in the way that you sample your hi-hats and how you play your hi-hats.” He looked at me like, ‘Of course. That is the right answer.’ It’s all in the drum pattern and the rate you sample your drums, to me. Sometimes a snare that doesn’t have to be tuned down in the SP, a snare that in other words that’s sampled in real time and then played in real time on the SP is really clear and almost sounds digital on the SP even though the SP is a dirty, 12-bit machine. There’s a way to sample the drums onto the machine where they sound like Akai drums with a dirty loops. That comes with time and you have to know how to freak these machines into fooling the people. I may tell you that I hung up the SP and play you five beats that you could have sworn I made on an Akai. If I play them for you on a CD you’ll never be able to tell what machine I made them on. But I like the SP. It forces creativity. You only have ten seconds and you have to bring it home. It’s raw. That’s what hip-hop is about. It’s less. Less is more, definitely.

How’s your relationship with Marley Marl and Pete Rock today?

I haven’t seen those guys in awhile. I’m loving the Cocoa Brovaz and Pete Rock album. I’ve been a huge Pete Rock fan, of course. He’s been an influence and Marley’s been an influence. I haven’t seen Marley in awhile. I hope I see him real soon and hope he’ll stand behind the album. He had a lot to do with it. There’s a lot of treats from Future Flavas that were never available until now, including the “Self Conscious” revisit. I came up with the scratch hook. It’s an official Future Flavas record. I wanted it to feel like a Future Flavas radio show, hence the crowd and some of the sound effects. I did want it to sound like a radio show album and paying homage to the Future Flavas time because that is when I started coming up and honing the craft of beatmaking.

Those days were great. I hear Marley, through the grapevine, is trying to do a reunion show on the web. I don’t know if it’s going to be on the radio again. But I look back and I wouldn’t change a thing. It was so much fun going to the show. Sunday nights will never be the same again. I loved it. I have no regrets about that. I was just really humble. I was in the background and I wasn’t shout-out hungry and I wasn’t so much into the notoriety. I just loved watching people appreciate the stuff that I was putting forth. I didn’t have a need to really be upfront. It wasn’t like that for me. It was just about flexing the skills and quietly playing the background.

And I’m not totally happy with how I did it. I should have been more aggressive. I was in my 20s then and I was doing it for the love. There were a couple of times that I caught feelings, one being the Black Rob exclusive that Marley would rock at the beginning of a show for about a year or two straight. It was a Black Rob and J-Force exclusive and he actually shouted me out on it. That beat eventually became a beat for an AZ revisit. Anyway, Black Rob didn’t realize it. During the radio show, he was freestyling over an SP beat. He told Marley he would rock with us and he wanted something from them and that I should just play him the beat he rapped to and that was my beat. Then he looked at me like, ‘You made that beat?’ Then my feelings got involved and I didn’t really want to continue further. Rob wanted to know how to get in touch with me and I told him to get at me like he got at Marley and maybe I could have been on that album if I didn’t drop the ball. But no one really knew who J-Force was. I should have been more aggressive. There are regrets and maybe I should have shown a little more teeth. But I’m ready to do that now. I’m stronger, older, that much faster. Little things like that.

Who are your favorite artists to sample?

I don’t know if I should divulge that! (laughs) I like obscure, cruddy, 1960s rock records. I’m into rare soul from ’67 to ’72. I got a record at home by Manny Kellen. There’s just tons of stuff on that one record. Who else am I fishing for these days? I like R.B. Grieves, another pretty underground soul singer from back then. I got a ton of stuff that you’ve never heard of. There’s just stuff you never heard of. To me, I believe in not sampling the hits. Sampling stuff that fell by the wayside, that no one really took notice of, that’s the art of hip-hop. It’s not taking a Sister Sledge loop and adding drums to it. That’s not really what I do, anything when the loop is hot, the loop is hot and just throw some drums on it. The Ghostface record on Cadillac Respect is me looping The Escorts and I just added drums. Mainly that’s that.

Do you ever go back to older samples you’ve chopped and remaking the beats with your current mindstate?

Let me tell you what. I’m constantly known for sampling something on a Saturday morning and add the drums to it and the loop and shut the machine off without even saving the samples. That’s my new shit, and I’ll come back to it later that day or the next day. I’m really anal with what I save to discs nowadays. Not everything is floppy disk worthy. I’m really picky. It’s crazy. It’s a gift and a curse. But the formula just has to be so right. Timeless is what I shoot for. A lot of the stuff on Cadillac Respect, it’s from back then but it doesn’t get old.

And that’s what I try to bring forth in my brand of music. If it’s not classic material and it just sounds good for this season, then it’s not for me. It’s like how I come to the end result of my sound. “King’s County” doesn’t sound like it’s dated at all in my opinion. That could bang for ten, twenty years the way I sampled it. It’s a Glen Miller record and it was on the Hair Soundtrack. It’s so rare. I’ve never seen it at any expos. If you hear the original and “King’s County,” it will explain everything. I don’t even remember where I got those drums from but there’s a couple of producers who’ve used those drums. I left a couple of beat disks behind in my travels and I think people got a hold of them and I can tell those drums showed up on other records. I don’t remember where the drums on “King’s County” came from but the notes on “King’s County” that I chopped came from Glen Miller on the Hair Soundtrack. But I got a lot of rare records. That’s really all I deal with.

What’s next for you?

Ultimately I may do one more revisit project. I have these ideas of chop CDs whereas I would be sampling and chopping Led Zeppelin and Pink Floyd and Kiss. I’m a Kiss freak. And have it like Pink Floyd Meets Hip-Hop. I’m thinking of some concepts and some mash-up CDs along those lines. Other than that, if you hear track fifteen on Cadillac Respect, you’ll hear “Pink Chicken.” Those are my vocals. I rap too and if somebody steps to me with the right mathematics I would like to do an album with guests. I wouldn’t rap on every track but I would produce every track and do all the interludes. Hopefully that happens but if not, I’m fine in the background playing the beats.

Download Cadillac Respect here.

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You recently dropped The Cure 2, another dope Willie the Kid mixtape. Are you happy with how it’s doing so far?

Yeah, I’m excited about it. The Cure 2 was definitely a project that I was excited about putting together last year. I did The Fly 2 and The Crates to really go in that direction for The Cure 2. It’s really an in-your-face, a rhyme-driven project. I wasn’t really looking for no radio hits or I wasn’t looking for no single hooks. I was really just trying to take it back to the cipher and the basement and we definitely got that approach, definitely.

That was my favorite part of the mixtape, just real lyrical tracks. Are those your favorite tracks to make?

I enjoy it all, man. I enjoy making stuff for the mainstream because for me, it comes natural to make that type of material. When I’m able to just go crazy and do whatever the heck I want to do, it’s therapeutic for me, man. It goes beyond making music for a career at that point. When you sign to a label and the label got certain expectations and you have things you have to do for certain markets, that’s a strategy. But when I’m making music just for me, it’s holistic, man. It’s a therapy process for me, man.

What tracks were the most fun on The Cure 2?

The most fun, I think, was picking the beats. That was probably the most fun in the process. I was getting the grimiest, most in-your-face process I could find. I went with my trustees for that and got Frank Dukes, MoSS, and getting together with all my brothers and carving out that process. That, and the artwork, putting that together.

Is it ever hard getting beats for a free download?

Oh nah, nah. Those guys are good friends of mine. Those guys, I respect their talent and they respect mine. We talk on and off the grid. I understand what they’re doing and I understand what they do. I do records for them and I never charge them anything and they send me records and never charge me anything. I think for us all, we understand that and now if I had a major release and it was dropping and I had a budget, I would definitely pay them out of being a good dude and being fair, but as far as mixtapes, I think we all recognize the power of the underground and what it means to put some good shit together, even if it’s not mainstream.

And they’ll be the first ones you’d call when you get a budget.

Damn right.

The last time we’d talked you just released the Never a Dull Moment EP with Lee Bannon and the album was forthcoming. How’s that project coming?

It’s dope. We can’t stop making the music, man. We’ve been making mad music and some of the music is so dope I want to put it out. “Drunk Ass Bitch” was really for the Never a Dull Moment but we threw that out on The Cure 2. Now we have to just sit down and organize it. We make tons of music all the time but we haven’t really started pushing anything on the project. He sends me beats and I send him songs back and we go on and on with making music but I think we have to organize what we’re doing for the project.

But it’s definitely coming out. I would say we just got lost in the sauce and the idea of making the music. We just have to get the release date and all that.

You’ve always been known for working with DJ Drama, but you weren’t on his latest album Third Power. Is everything good?

Dram’s still a good friend of mine and we still keep in touch. He’s doing what he’s doing with his career and I think I just have to keep doing what I’m doing with mine for now. I think for now, everybody, me, him, Don Cannon, Sense, La the Darkman, everybody’s found a new comfort in just going in their own direction. No hard feelings. There’s no beef, no internet blogs. Everybody just needs to work in their own space right now. We’ll get back to it eventually.

Do you want to establish yourself as a solo artist more?

Yeah. I think we never gave our solo careers a chance. We’ve always been so connected to each other for such a long time. I don’t want to say we grew out of it but we all grew into a need to pursue our individual paths. That’s what was next on the agenda for everybody.

Do you have any regrets from the moves you made back in ’06 and ’07, when you were just starting to become knowing in the hip-hop community?

I can’t say there’s anything I wouldn’t do because it all got me to where I am today. I’m not one for regrets. I think everything that happened was supposed to happen. I think being so attached to Drama and the Apphiliates and Gangsta Grillz, I think what that did was give me a platform for being able to do what I’m doing now. I think it gave me a platform. I think back then, it gave me the leverage to do this crazy shit I’m doing now.

You’ve worked with a lot of big names on Gangsta Grillz mixtapes and albums. What have you learned through those experiences?

The number one thing I learned, man, was who I am as an artist. I believe in organic, natural chemistry and an organic, natural physical process. I like to identify with the artist as a person and I think that really makes for a beautiful product. A lot of times in the past, we were doing shit because it was good for business or it flowed for what we were doing as a company, business-wise. But I think in 2011, from some of the collaborations I did, like Styles P, Cory Gunz, and Jon Connor, I think stuff like that, and Krondon from Strong Arm Steady, I think those kind of collaborations and musical projects we put together, I think they speak more to what I’m saying as far as having a true bond and a true connection with the people I’m working with for the sake of the music.

Who would you like to work with next?

I’m excited to work with some producers. I can rap for three or four motherfuckers. I want to work with the RZA, Kanye West, Havoc, Pete Rock. All the producers, man. Madlib. I want to work with some producers. That’s who I want to get with.

What does it take for up-and-coming producers to catch your ear?

I don’t know, man. I just know when I hear it. Friends of mine say I’m too picky and they’ll play me a beat and I won’t like it and a week later I will. I’m real funny about beats and I’m real particular about beats. I got to a point now where I don’t even rap on beats unless it makes me go crazy at first. I don’t believe in “grow-on-me” beats. The song magically comes together in my mind before I can write it down. That’s the kind of beats I’m looking for and I got some real good friends in the business that I can turn to for beats. Every time Alchemist sends me beats it’s always incredible. I think Al’s one of my favorites right now and of course Lee Bannon. They send me shit and it always goes. And my man V. Don out of Harlem, New York. He’s got some crazy shit too. When I get beats from them brothers, I’m straight. But I do want to branch out and make some more music with up-and-coming producers and I think that’ll come as I keep making music.

What’s next for you?

I’m about to do this project called Moment in Time. It’s going to basically be, I’m not even sure what to call it at this point, it’s going to be a package where you download a link and you get some videos, rare throwback footage and rare behind the scenes footage. It’s basically going to be an interview and music to go along with it. It’ll be like when an artist went on Rap City and they showed all their videos at that time. I’m going to give a real in-depth interview about my career and videos from throughout my career.

How’s your big brother La the Darkman doing?

Oh, he’s doing well. He’s doing really well. He was doing some dates with Wu-Tang on the Wu-Tang Tour. He was just reaching out and going back to his roots with the Clan. Him and RZA’s relationship has always been great. We got some great things coming in the future with La and RZA so check out for that.

What talent should we be watching for from Michigan next?

My man S. Class Sonny. Make sure you check out for him. He’s a friend I grew up with and he had to go away, pay a debt to society. But he always stayed in touch and when he came back, I told him all my resources would be his. He’s my friend, but I’m telling you he’s one of the most influential and hardest-working cats I know. I’m not talking about the ones that are already on the radio and known already. He’s one of the fastest growing guys. Check for him.

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When I first heard you were writing a book, I was really excited to read it and now that I have, I’d definitely recommend it to everyone. How did the idea for a book come about in the first place?

I had been writing stuff and posting it on my blog on Dante Ross’ website in 2009. The stuff was getting good feedback and people wanted more, but a lot of the material was stuff I’d written over the years so I was really just archiving. The blog game is like the mixtape game – you have to drop something very often or you’re forgotten. I was writing pieces that were 2000-3000 words and there was no way I could keep that up at a one post per week rate, so I decided to compile them into a book and make it a cohesive project. I was always a full-length album-driven artist when I was doing music, not a mixtape or 12” single artist. I like pulling a bunch of one ideas into one project, so a book was a good option. I also wanted to write one because my grandfather wrote one and he could never get it published, so I’m kind of living out the dream for him.

What were some of the challenges you faced writing a book?

The editing process was much harder than the writing. It was also hard to revisit some of the rougher moments at the end of my rap career because I’d already put those moments behind me, but I found that writing about them helped me find humor in them.

You mention in Root for the Villain about how you never “broke through” to the side of super-stardom, yet you still had a very successful career as an MC. It seems like you wrestle with the notion of success and failure on an everyday basis.

Of course, because we live in a world where everyone is judging you 24/7. It’s easy for you to find pride in what you’ve accomplished because you know what went into it, but on the surface people will trivialize what you’ve done and been through. When it comes to hip-hop, if someone says “I’ve never heard of you,” its not like they’re curious and trying to check for you because you may have been slept on for a multitude of circumstances. It means you can’t be worth much if you’re not known on a major scale. It’s like, “Oh, he only has 500 YouTube views, 4,000 Twitter followers, 1400 Facebook likes, and no Wikipedia page; he must be wack!” So when music is all you’ve been about and your career didn’t produce tangible commercial success, people start mentioning failure. And as artists, many of us forget to separate our artist personas from who we are as regular people. If J-Zone didn’t sell a lot of records, Jay the person feels like a failure because when music is both your passion and income, the two entities are connected. I had to learn to separate myself from J-Zone to appreciate what I’ve done.

Do you feel you ever look at the ideas of success and failure as mutually exclusive?

They’re both relative, not exclusive. I personally only see things as a failure if you don’t meet your goal and you don’t learn from the experience. As long as you walk away with something, it can’t be a total failure. And even if it is, so what? It’s not a dirty word; you have to embrace it and use it to your advantage. A lot of people misunderstood what I meant by “failure” in the book title. I don’t believe I’m a failure, but by the standards of the music business and the average person who’s not in the know of how it works, I was.

You titled your book Root for the Villain. Was that a nod to Nas’ “One Time for Your Mind”? Where did the title come from?

(Laughs) Nah. It just meant to support the person who walks the road less traveled and refuses to play by the rules simply because they’re there. That road is one where things can easily go wrong, but it’s cool to show love to a cat who has the balls to do things his own way and not compromise.

It’s been entertaining reading your various writings across different websites over the years. What got you into writing?

I always wrote, since middle school. Even when I was doing the music full-time, I wrote columns for Hip-Hop Connection, SLAM Magazine, The Source, Hip-Hop DX, and Elemental. It was a side hustle for as long as I’ve been active in the music business.

Are you still making beats and networking with artists today?

Not so much. I made a few beats in 2011, maybe 3 or 4. One of them came out, a remix I did for my man Has-Lo. I do beats when I feel inspired; it’s more like an occasional hobby now. I started learning how to play drums just to keep some music going in my life and I DJ from time to time, but that’s it for now.

Do you have plans for any new J-Zone albums in the near future, especially with the publicity you’ve generated with Root for the Villain?

(Laughs) No, I seriously doubt it. I had my time. Not saying never; maybe I’ll do a comeback album from called “Live from the Nursing Home” in 2041.

Any plans for new books in the future?

I hope so! I want to write another one, but I can’t do it in the same style as this one. “Root for the Villain” is 34 years of living rolled into about 200 pages. I want to work on a biography for another musician or maybe write a book about one thing in particular. I definitely want to keep at it, but I have no idea what the next one will be about. It just has to come to me naturally.

You’ve been covering high school basketball for awhile. What prospects in the NYC area should we be on the lookout for in the future?

In the years I’ve been doing this, I’ve interviewed and/or covered Kemba Walker, Charles Jenkins, Sebastian Telfair, Tobias Harris, Kyrie Irving, and Lance Stephenson when they were in high school – they all went to the NBA. That being said, NYC basketball is down at the moment. New Jersey and other places around the country are much better areas to recruit talent. But there are a few bright spots here. Leroy “Truck” Fludd from Boys & Girls HS in Brooklyn is a tough dude; he dominates games. Jefferson HS in Brooklyn has a young, rugged team that’s real exciting to watch. Mount Vernon always runs a great program; they always have talent and good coaching and the players go on to be solid young men. So there’s a few bright spots out there.

If you’re the GM of the Knicks, what moves are you making to turn them into a serious contender?

Put the New York Liberty on the court instead.

Do you think fans will dig into your older music after reading the book?

So far they have.

Has your grandmother, Evil E read Root for the Villain yet?

Yes. She liked it and thought it was funny, but said I curse too much and had a tough time reading because she needed a magnifying glass to see all the print.

GoVillainGo

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Big Fendi (The Man Who Discovered And Brought You Nicki Minaj) Goes In On Her! [

Love the line “I told her to talk about p****.” In all honesty, without Fendi and Reggie at Dirty Money, Nicki never would have gotten any HipHopGame love, which was her intro to the online world. Fendi’s a great example of why you have to have airtight contracts when you’re doing real business. Also goes in on Jordan Tower here. This is a classic interview for anyone paying attention to the mixtape scene in the mid 2000s.

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Dutch, you’ve been dropping tons of freestyles and mixtapes. In your latest freestyle, you shout out Victor Cruz. Are you surprised by their victory at Green Bay?

I was going crazy! That’s my favorite sport and I’m a diehard Giants fan. I had to throw that in there! I knew they was going to win, but I didn’t know how. I was saying to some of my people watching the game that I didn’t know, it could have been a close one or a blowout. I didn’t know they were going to win in that fashion, 37-20.

I didn’t know they were going to have to play the officials at the same time.

Exactly! Oh, they had me sick! But it’s been like that all season. That’s why I think we’re going to the Super Bowl and are going to take it all. We’ve played the officials all season. I can’t wait!

Your latest mixtape, No Relief, recently dropped. Are you happy with how that’s been doing?

Yeah, I’m very, very satisfied. I think it’s gotten a good response. We’ve done shows off of it and I’ve done videos. The whole reception towards the No Relief project is way bigger than I thought it would be.

How have you grown on No Relief compared to your last mixtape, Katrina Flood?

When I listen to those two projects, they’re almost polar opposites because there’s a maturity in the music. I always said that when I made music, whether or not I was grown or not, I wanted the people that listened to me to grow with the music. I showed my growth as an artist and my maturity is there also. It’s different from being in the street and rapping about it or looking at it from a different point of view and looking at it as a man. That’s where No Relief is.

Did you feel like that element was missing in your earlier music?

I don’t feel like it’s missing, but that’s just me and how I make music. I feel like I wouldn’t be able to make the same type of music I’ve already made because then I’d be cloning myself and doing the same thing. That was just a natural progression. With No Relief 2, which I’m about to do, I can still go back and kick that shit, but as a fan and if you’re a fan of me and my music, I had to take a break from being super-lyrical all the time and let you know where I’m at in my life and my mental state.

How’s No Relief 2 coming?

No Relief 2 is done! Right now, I’m at the point where I’m working on No Relief 2 videos and all that crazy shit and recording at the same time. But I think I was done with No Relief 2 by the time one dropped. Before one dropped, I was done with two. With No Relief 2, it’s going to be one of my favorite projects to date.

What makes this one of your favorites?

It’s a mixture of Katrina Flood and No Relief. It’s like I took it up a notch on both levels. I took it up a notch with myself and I took it up a notch with my spitting. Everything that I did is up a notch. This one is going to be more like a mixtape. No Relief is more like an album. No Relief 2 is more like a mixtape. With No Relief, I was more in tune with my actual personal life and I was putting my heart on the records. With No Relief 2, I’m having a little more fun, going back to what I do, going back to spitting and going hard, sparring with different artists. We’re also going to kill them with our EP. Going to kill them with that.

I love the music we’re working on, but I’m a little biased.

You should love it. It’s heat! I’m loving it so far. When you hit me about doing a project, it tapped into a different part of me and a different part of music that I always listened to and that I was always a fan of. What I’ve been getting from you, 730, these are easy. These are like putting rookies against Tyson. I can do these in my sleep. This is the type of music I came up with and the type of music that made me love rap. This is easy! I can kill this! What I love about your joints, specifically, is that it’s so hip-hop. I lock in the studio by myself with these. It reminds me of Gang Starr’s “Code of the Streets” with this project, “Just to Get a Rep.” That’s the vibe I get. That’s my shit. I fucks with that!

This is the first time I’m ever talking about my own music in an interview.

I’m glad it’s with Dutch New York. That’s what I’m talking about!

Me too. We’ve got about four songs done, but we should be ready to drop soon.

Right. We don’t even have to put a time on it. Whenever that project is the best that it’s going to be, we can green light it. We’re going to keep recording and hopefully we’ll have that out there early spring.

Sounds like a plan. You put a lot of music out for free. Does that ever get frustrating?

It’s frustrating to a certain point, but even if I didn’t have any way to put it out, I would still be recording the same volume of music. I just have an easier outlet to get the music out. I work so hard on the music. It’s hard chasing people down and trying to get your music posted in different places. There’s also people that don’t want the music. Even if I didn’t have the internet, I would still be recording and I’d still be out in the streets in the middle of the ciphers. I’d be wherever the music is. It’s still an outlet. The people that want to find it, they’re going to find it on the internet, for free or for pay. It doesn’t matter to me. I love the music and I’ll do it until I don’t have a voice left. I’m doing this for y’all.

Do you see your fanbase growing?

Absolutely. Absolutely. It’s been mind-blowing to me. I didn’t expect it. When you’re in the studio by yourself and with your people, you don’t really know how many people are listening, but doing shows and seeing the amount of people that come to shows and listen to the music and know the music, it’s crazy. I did a free listening party for my mixtape and the turnout was crazy. There were so many people. I got the biggest spot I could get and I still would have needed a bigger spot. I love the people for that. I’m going to continue doing it. The people have been very receptive to it.

What’s going on with your group The Stack Boyz?

Right now we’re working on The Stack Boyz Season Finale mixtape. We have some solo projects they’re working on too. We’re deep and everybody’s nice. Everybody’s in the studio right now. Matter of fact, they’re in the studio now, as we speak. The Season Finale is going to be the next thing to go. I’m thinking about doing a StackLand concert and everybody’s going to come out and do their joints. We’re working on that for the summer. That’s something crazy to look out for.

How did you “Yeah” adlib come about?

I was doing a freestyle, a “Miss Me” freestyle, and the beat stopped and I paused and I was just like, ‘Yeah!’ The faces when I did it was like, ‘Ooh wee, what was that?’ I couldn’t even record because they were running with it. I had to keep giving them that!

I don’t think you can shake it at this point.

(laughs) No. I’m running with it!

You have a strong online presence with your music today. What else are you working on as far as the internet is concerned?

I’m trying to centralize everything through DutchNewYork.net. I’m going to send my regular emails out still but I want to centralize everything and my YouTube page is where all my videos will be. I love the support, but if you’re trying to find out anything about me, that’s where you go.

@dutchnewyork

YouTube.com/MrStackLand

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You just released The Susan Sarandon Story mixtape, which features an array of quality guests and some of your best beats. You must be pretty proud of the project.

Yeah. I definitely am. A lot of it is songs that were already out or are coming out. I just had a lot of music sitting around and I felt like people didn’t really know my body of work or they weren’t really associating different joints I did for different artists, so I just really wanted to put one cohesive thing together.

Do you think people will realize all the songs you’ve done as a producer now?

Yeah, I hope that not only that, people know me for different works that I do. I want people in California who hear about me from working with Fashawn or A1 or Omar Aura to hear about the music I’m doing with Steven King or REKS or vice versa. I’ve got stuff in the works with people in Detroit that I essentially cold-called because they had never heard my music. I’m kind of all over the place.

A lot of your songs feature more than one artist. Is it ever a challenge making cohesive songs with so many people involved?

Yeah, it’s very difficult. I don’t like to do it online. I literally like to have everyone in the same place. I would say maybe only two or three of those records on the tape, I’m just trying to think off the top of my head, were done with people in different places, saying that I may have not been there for part of the recording process. Being there, you get to add your input and you’re taking yourself from being a beatmaker to a producer, if that makes any sense.

Is it ever hard giving constructive criticism to established artists, especially with you as a relatively new producer?

Yeah, especially if you’re in a session with someone you’ve never worked with before and you admire them as a musician and you think they could have done it better or done something different or you have a different idea. It takes a certain personality but I think that the music just comes out way better and I think most people will listen to criticism, if they’re smart, at least.

What are you most proud of on The Susan Sarandon Story?

One of my favorite songs on the mixtape is “The Masquerade” by Hadji Quest. I’m really proud of that because that’s a perfect example of what we were just talking about. Hadji Quest is the homie from Brooklyn and he’s got a project coming out and Statik Selektah did most of the production on it. That song was essentially just one verse and I had gotten really attached to the beat because I played this guitar riff at the end and I arranged it a certain way. I told him we couldn’t just have one verse on there. I told him to come over to my house and we would figure out what we should do for the hook and he should write a second verse and he should write a bridge. We crafted the song around a certain structure and Statik made the cuts and the song sounds fantastic. The other thing about it is that no one’s ever heard his music before. That’s the first song that he’s released, so to have that song be the first song released and have it be a song that I’m so proud of, I was really happy with that.

And you’re doing more work with him, right?

Yeah. We’ve done probably fifteen or twenty joints, but I’m not sure how many. I think there’s only ten or twelve joints on his project that he has.

Why did you name the mixtape after Susan Sarandon?

That’s the million dollar question, isn’t it? I’ve been working on my full-length and I was going to use some of those records. But the musical direction went elsewhere, so I was thinking if I should scrap these songs or whatever and I decided to put them out and I didn’t know what to call it so I went to Twitter of all places. I asked my followers what I should call this project and YC the Cynic, who’s the homie, said I should call it The Susan Sarandon Story. So that’s how the title came about but what he didn’t know was that I was looking for something very weird and along those lines, but it also just kind of worked because I happened to go to school with Susan Sarandon’s daughter and as far as having any ties to the music or the content is zero. And it really is, you know, this is not an album. This is a collection of songs. When I put out a full-length and when I eventually get the project out, it will definitely be more of a complete project. But this is just something I wanted to get out to get people more familiar with me. I wanted to throw a weirdo name on it and let’s just run with it.

Could this parlay into a ping-pong match, with Susan Sarandon and her connection with the ping-pong club SPIN?

I would love so. I would love so. It’s funny. If you search her name, a review for my project actually comes up on the first page. Maybe she sees it. That’s some high end, snobbery side of ping-pong, right? Like people riding horses and drinking champagne in between ping-pong matches?

I don’t think it’s the kind you’d play in your basement.

I don’t know if that’s me.

You’re also working on a project with Chaundon. How’s that coming?

It’s done. It’s actually been done for four or five months. He flew out to New York for two weeks, knocked it out, went home, I got the mixes done and that’s it. It’s a good project. Ten songs.

You do a lot of work with Steven King as well. What can we expect from you guys?

He just dropped an EP called Distribution Habits. He’s of course on the Kool G Rap record with Rustee Juxx on my project. The EP was produced by myself, Harry Fraud and Statik. The album is pretty much done. We need to get a couple more songs mixed, but the LP is done. Ill Bill has a record on there. I have records. Fraud has records. There’s a Statik record that Term is on that is crazy. We actually just did a couple joints with REKS and Steven King that are out of control. That album is coming. That’s hardcore, gritty New York rap.

How’s your official compilation coming?

Good. I’m like, four or five songs deep. I’ll probably over-record, but it’s going well. You’ll see a lot of the same people on this project as The Susan Sarandon Story, but it’ll be missing a few and I’ll be adding a few people.

How do you balance which beats go for the various projects you’re working on as well as the ones you sell to artists for their projects?

Up until more recently, I have been more of going along with I’m just going to make a ton of beats and send them ten joints when someone asks for beats that I think they’ll sound good on. But lately I have been, sort of, as I’ve been crafting beats, who I would maybe try to craft this more specifically for, do that, and then send that to them. Sometimes I just know immediately, whether I hear a sample or once I start chopping it up. I’ll know, hey, this is for so-and-so.

As far as selling beats to random people, I’m really trying not to do that. I’m not trying to do the random I don’t know you-type of music anymore.

Can you take us through the making of an ATG beat?

For people who listen to The Susan Sarandon Story in their entirety, they’ll notice that the only track that has no samples is the last track with REKS and Lucky Dice. And that came about just from a guitar riff that I was playing. If you hear any guitar in my beats, it’s usually live guitar that I’m playing. So if I’m doing something that’s sample free, it’ll start with a guitar riff and then craft it around that. And those beats are always special to me so I always put a little bit more into them, I think, as far as time and self-criticism and perfection.

As far as a sample joint goes, it usually starts with the sample and I usually hear something right away that makes me want to chop it up. I’ll chop up the sample and arrange it in the way that I want or the way that I hear in my head and then start attacking the drums and just digging through drums and trying to find the right drums, which can take anywhere from a minute to 30 minutes sometimes, figuring out the right drums. And then once I have the basic structure, I might start thinking about song structure and how this would be presented as a song and how it can build and how it can move from start to finish and that process can take more time than it took to make the actual beat. A lot of times, once someone takes a song, I like to think they’re more like skeletons in the sense of once somebody decides to go in on something, if I hear changes to be made, I’ll go in after the fact and try to make it sound better. And now, of course, is the big component of bass. I like to play basslines on my bass guitar, if I can, but sometimes the samples have it.

What element does the live guitar bring to your production?

I think it adds a more universal sound. I think whether I’m playing with samples or playing guitar on the beat, I think the guitar is one of those instruments that’s sort of understood everywhere. Sometimes it sounds crappy but sometimes it can take emotional songs to either higher or darker places. The guitar is one of those instruments, it just breathes. It cries. What is it? “While My Guitar Gently Weeps”?

What other equipment do you use when making beats?

I use a midi keyboard and as far as production, I’ve been making all my beats in Pro Tools and Reason, so if I’m doing any synth work, I’ll use Reason as sort of refiltering before Pro Tools. I used to use solely the MPC and just pack everything in Pro Tools and do all the mixing in Pro Tools, but it just got to be too slow for my work ethic. It would just take too long to do everything. I’m actually looking forward to seeing this new MPC that they got, to see if it works anything like they say it does. I actually kind of jacked that move from Statik. I was making beats on the MPC and I started watching him and I saw I could get a lot more work done if I just used Pro Tools. You do lose the pads, the feeling of the pads. I do miss it, but I’m just way more productive.

What other projects can we expect from you?

Omar Aura has his mixtape coming. That’s coming soon. I didn’t do all the joints on there but me and him are doing an EP after that is released. There’s talks of other EPs with people but nothing has come to fruition. Hadji Quest’s project is coming out. Curtains has a new project coming out. I don’t know what the date is but I’m on that. I think I have five songs on that. Just a lot more of the same, just trying to get placements up and trying a lot more to do these producer-artist projects because I had a great time doing it with Chaundon.

@heroicvillain

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5. Jim Harbaugh – No post-game chest bump, Coach? Most of the time, I like your style, the energy you bring, and the passion you’re able to share with your players. But no post-game interview? That’s disappointing. Those are some of the most interesting pieces of journalism one can see at the end of a high stakes game. There’s nothing like Jim Gray, or in this case it would have been Pam Oliver or Chris Meyers, grilling someone in hallway that’s deader than a Hell Rell and Uncle Murda headliner as the coach looks anywhere but the camera, admitting they lost and trying to be a good sport by congratulating the other team, but you know the whole time they’re wondering how long they should wait before approaching their owner and begging like Biggie for one more chance next season.

4. Victor Cruz – Another monster game from my new favorite Giant. #YoungWhales showed up and killed it, but did you see how tired he was at the end of the first half? I’d be pretty tired too after his huge first half, but homie, if I gotta send you some five-hour energy, let me know and it’s as good as overnighted.

3. Eli Manning – Is he a semi-decent quarterback in the eyes of football fans everywhere now? Saying he’s all right or that he keeps getting lucky is almost as disrespectful as saying Pete Rock found some nice samples or Large Pro pulled a couple bangers off. I’m not sure what else Eli has to do to prove he belongs, but despite how terrible Indianapolis was this year, I think the argument can be made that Eli is more valuable to the Giants than Peyton is to the Colts.

2. Vernon Davis – Nice work, my man. Thank you very much for your well wishes to the Giants, saying during their halftime against Green Bay that you’re praying to play them. Well, you got what you were praying for, and, despite your two touchdowns, one of which you probably stepped out of bounds for, it probably wasn’t the best thing you ever prayed for. Firing Mike Singletary, probably a good one. By the way, props for one of THE WORST touchdown celebrations, standing on a TV cart looking like an out-of-place b-boy with no one to challenge. I half-expected Alex Smith to break out some cardboard and break out some windmills.

1. Tom Coughlin – I’ll admit, I’ve been on the “Fire Coughlin” bandwagon so many times I got a yearly pass to save on fare. A few losses to teams the Giants should never lose to, like the Redskins, are all it takes to try and run the ruddy-faced curmudgeon out of town. I’ve never seen someone who can look so miserable winning, but I am thankful he’s not my pops. Could you imagine giving him a birthday present? “Hey, thanks, it’s exactly what I wanted. But there’s a crease on the packaging that shouldn’t be there and the wrapping paper, the comics? Really? You tried, but you need to do better.” Hey, the old man has silenced his critics until the draft.

Related posts:

1. 5 @ 5 January 18, 2012 Edition
2. 5 @ 5 – January 19, 2012 Edition
3. 5 @ 5 January 17, 2012 Edition

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You’re one of those MCs who stays working. It seems as though there’s never a dull moment with you.

Yeah. I feel like if I stop moving, then hip-hop is over. That’s why I put out this new song that I got called “Crank.” It’s kind of like the movie, where if you stop moving, then your heart just stops. If you stop moving, you die. I feel like I gotta keep going. I got some things to bring to the table that people should definitely check out.

Your new album, Relentless 2, has a KickStarter page to collect funds for marketing. That’s a great way to raise awareness and support.

Definitely. It’s adding marketing dollars. I could use those things towards different things, little radio campaigns and all that. I put things out with my label and in conjunction with other people, doing the little digital stuff. But I’m just trying to combine the old ways and the new ways also. Because some people, they concentrate just on the ‘net and the free downloads. I believe that if you combine both forms, if you still make hard copies, if you still concentrate on merchandise and shows and you still do stickers, like back in the days, and just combine the old and the new, it would just make more of an impact. I was just looking for people to contribute marketing dollars. I don’t think I gave myself enough time. I only made it 30 days. I should have made it 60 days. And I probably should have made the money lower, too, so that I could definitely use it towards something. But it’s worth trying. Everything is worth trying. If you don’t try, then you’ll never know what could happen. This year, I’m trying everything, as long as it coincides with what I’m trying to bring to the table. It’s all good. It’s definitely a way to, just like the name, kick start a project. All the people that hit me up on the ‘net for verses and other stuff, somebody should be able to contribute $5, $10, $15, whatever. But the people want what they want and they move when they want to move, so you just move with it.

It’s gotta make you feel good to see some support from KickStarter.

Yeah. I’m definitely trying to raise awareness because I run into people overseas and they’ll tell me they didn’t know I had all this out and the last thing they remember is Never Say Never or wherever they stopped and at what point they stopped hearing my stuff. It’s really about raising awareness that the stuff is actually out because that’d be the thing. A lot of artists, they have mixtapes and they have songs out but other people in other places and countries don’t know if it’s out if it’s not being promoted and for an underground artist, there’s only a few ways. There’s the internet or you’re touring. There’s only a few ways and you gotta try everything to get it out there.

How is your next album, Relentless 2, coming?

The project is done. The project is done and mastered. I’m just trying to figure out new, creative ways to promote it. I have other mixtapes out and they got good responses and they got good downloads and people supported it, but every project, you’re trying to do at least a couple notches better than the last one. And I want more people to know that it’s out, so even things like SXSW, even if I’m not in it, I’m gonna go this year with merchandise and go to different festivals and just show up with my merch and just raise awareness. The response for Relentless 2 has been good. I put out a few leaks. I put out the leak with Rock from Heltah Skeltah. I put out another one, a video called “This Is” and another song called “Crank.” The response has been good on all three of them. So now it’s just about bringing it all home. I got a few shows up and down the East Coast and I’m doing Europe at the end of March. Everything should be good. Everything’s going to be tight. I’m just trying to get it warm because I have another album that I’m trying to drop at the end of summer called Keepers of the Lost Art. Relentless is the appetizer for that.

You’ve done so many guest appearances that you were able to compile them into a compilation, The American Classic. Is it easy for you to collaborate on your own projects when it’s time?

Everybody looks out, for the most part. There are some people, where their schedules are so hectic, that it’s hard to get them to do it if they’re not getting paid, but for the most part, everybody that I’ve done stuff for has returned the favor. That’s the current climate right now. If you got a name that people check for, you could barter. You trade services. Sometimes I do verses and songs for different producers and they hook up websites or artwork. They trade. Same thing with the MCs. I might hook them up with a video producer and they hook me up with a verse. It’s a community. The more we stick together, the better things look.

For the most part, the people you see on my project, I know them and I’ve sat down and had conversations with them and built with them. It’s not like an internet thing where I just hit them up and they magically just do a verse for nothing. I know the people, aside from maybe one or two people that we caught a vibe on Facebook or something. For the most part, I know them. Sadat X, Steele from Smif N Wessun, Hasan Salaam, they’re all friends of mine. That’s what makes the music real to me.

What is it about you that allows you to pull off so many collaborations and have them work?

I don’t know. It’s a couple things. Artists might look and say, “Okay, if I do a joint with Shabaam, he’s gonna promote it and he’s going to make sure he does what he can to make sure it gets out there. It’s not like we just did a song that I’m going to play for my friends. It’s going to get out there somehow.”

People respect the grind and I respect other people’s grinds too. You might see me at a show and talk about doing a joint and if I respect your grind and I know that you’re doing your thing, I want to be a part of it and I’m not going to charge you nothing, especially if your name is up. I want to be a part of your movement and I want you to be a part of my movement. We each get a piece of each other’s fanbase. And if I’m on your CD, I’m going to make sure I promote your shit too. I’ll let people know I’m on this. That’s how I get down. I’m fair. Whoever’s on my project, that’s who I’m cool with.

Do you still have fans mentioning your older music and following your older stuff?

Yeah. There’s a lot of fans, they get familiar with my new stuff and they check for my older stuff. There’s some fans out there, they just want to hear the retro sound and they just want to hear my older stuff. It’s crazy, because at the time, I didn’t think of it like that. I didn’t think that people would still be excited about it, like 10-15 years later, but I feel like some people are more excited about it now than they were when it actually came out. But it is what it is. I’m fortunate to have come out in the Golden Era and I’m still doing it now. Some people gave up. I don’t know. I guess ‘cause they couldn’t see the money out of it.

But I love hip-hop. Some people got pottery, I got hip-hop. (laughs) Whether I’m working a job, because I’m a barber and I go to school. I work at a hotel. I do different things, but I always juggle it and I still do my hip-hop too and I make a good amount of money. It’s like, if you love it, you’re in it for the long haul. It’s like jazz. It’s the same thing as jazz.

Before there was an age boundary with rap, where it was a young man’s game, where once you were out of your 20s, people figured you should stop rapping, but realistically, how can you put an age barrier on rap when people have been listening to rap for, like, five generations now? That’s five generations of hip-hop listeners. There’s people’s grandparents that were listening to King Tim III. You can’t really put no age barrier on it. That’s why I named this series Relentless, because I’m not going to stop. And every year I learn more and I learn better the aspects of the business part of it and not just the music. So you know, hopefully it’ll be like jazz. We’ll still be touring the States and Europe and wherever they like it.

My aim is just to make timeless music that people will be able to check out years from now and be like, ‘I like this.’ My demographic is 29 to, like, 35, but I could appeal to the younger people too because it’s like, I don’t think there’s really no age barrier. I just don’t make childish music. I don’t make music to get silly to. It’s more thinking music, it’s more driving music. I’m really not too much on the party side. I could make party records, but I’m not in party mode 24-7, so I appeal to the people who like to think and the street element also.

Besides Relentless 2 and Keepers of the Lost Art, you’re working on some collaboration albums. Can you give us some insight into those?

I got a limited edition 45 that I’m coming out with DJ Spinna. It should be out in two, three weeks. I’ve been messing with Spinna forever. That’s like my brother. My vibe and his vibe are just trying to keep it classic. He did “5 Star General” with me that had Eminem on it and he did a lot of other classics. We did the Polyrhythm Addict album that came out in the ‘90s and the one that came out in ’07. We’re trying to continue that and we might be dropping an album called Midlife Crisis on BBE. The 12” is kind of like the lead-up to that.

And I got another project that I completed with a new artist named Eddie B and another guy called H Fraud. H Fraud really does a lot of production for French Montana and Lil’ Cease and a couple other artists that I like that are more mainstream. He kind of reached into his other element to do the album with me and his artist, Eddie B, who’s an ill lyricist too. Our album is Crossfire. We got Maffew Ragazino, Poison Pen and the Incomparable Shakespeare. More newer cats. We got Chace Infinite from Self-Scientific. It’s a different album. It’s still that underground flavor though. Straight lyrics. Something that you pop in and smoke to and drive to and listen to and rewind it, “He said that.”

I got a couple other projects, like The Closers, with Red Eye and the two producers in Thoro Tracks. I’m just trying to stay busy. I’m going to keep some of them under wraps but The Keepers of the Lost Art, Relentless 2, the album with DJ Spinna and Crossfire with H Fraud and Eddie B.

What’s it like working with Spinna today?

Spinna is a rare, rare dude. He’s really a DJ. He’s the essence of what I think about when I think of a DJ. That’s who I think of. His house, where he lives in, he has a whole ‘nother different apartment that has wall-to-wall records. Shelves, actually like rows, like you could go down rows like a supermarket (laughs) of records. He’s a producer and he’s a DJ. Working with Spinna is like working with a hip-hop Simon. You mention a sample and he’s going to go find it. It could be an accapella and he’ll run down the aisle and find it. He might have the test press of it! Working with him is definitely classic, classic material and the project with me and Spinna, I’m going to be telling more stories than anything. Definitely more story-oriented because I feel like that’s missing in hip-hop too.

But the 45 that we got coming out, there’s a song on one side and there’s a story side called “Motion Picture.” We cut up that Royal Flush record and he’s killing it. There’s definitely a lot of scratches and a lot of fly shit in there! (laughs) I’m excited for a 45. I never had a 45. It’s a little baby record with the cover and everything. Collectible! Only 500! Only 500 are being made! If it was done in time, I would have offered that on KickStarter as one of those incentives, but KickStarter is basically a test for me. I wanted to see if it could work and it worked for some people but what works for others might not work for you. Now that I put that up, I see other people wanting to go to KickStarter too. Hey, whatever. I’ve seen it work for Ras Kass though. Ras Kass, he turned up a lot of money. That was good.

Do you think you’ll do another Polyrhythm Addicts album?

I want to do a reunion album but it’s hard to coordinate five people. Apani is a mother now, she just had twins. Same thing with Tiye Phoenix. All our kids together is like a whole football team with subs! (laughs) It’s hard to kind of coordinate five people, me, Spinna, Complex, Apani and Tiye Phoenix. That would be a fly album. With all of us, that would be an incredible album, but making it come together is harder than it seems.

Are Tiye Phoenix and Apani still rhyming?

Yeah, they’re both still rhyming, but after you’ve been doing this for a certain amount of years, some people feel like they get to a crossroads and they either stay focused on rap or they focus on work and mouths to feed. Me, I’m in a different zone. I still do my grown man business. I still got two jobs and I still go to school. I just finished school. I just feel like I could handle it. I can’t give up on hip-hop. There’s people out there that still want that real shit so I’m going to keep going. As far as them, I don’t know what their plans are. They’re both still rhyming. I just don’t think that it’s a priority for them to come out with stuff regularly. It’s on them. They’re my sisters and Spinna and Complex are my brothers. Whenever they’re ready, I’m down. There’s not going to be any blockage from me.

How do you hear your music evolving as you keep recording?

Well, it definitely is changing, because, as you become a parent and you get older, your topic range changes a little bit. Your whole perspective changes. It should change. I see myself growing as far as getting more with the business aspect of it and rhyming in my age bracket. (laughs) It’s less wilding out and it’s more grown men business on it. I still got that street element to my music, but it’s not about wilding like before. It’s more contained. I’m open to describing other, different topics. I’m going to get more into stories because I feel like that element is almost gone.

Are you hitting the road soon?

I should be out in Europe in March for a couple festivals. I’m doing an East Coast tour. I think touring is important for artists because some people don’t realize what you have going on until they see you rip a stage. Last year my appendix burst and I could hardly walk in Europe. I was dragging my bag around the whole tour. I had 175 stitches. I had to clean it, change the bandage, rock the show, go back to the hotel, take mediation. I’m in this hip-hop shit for the long haul.

@shabaamsahdeeq

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Stu, you’ve been busy working on a lot of different projects, from the full-length LP with Blaq Poet to working on Copywrite’s new album God Save the King. What was it like working with Copy?

It was pretty easy to work with Pete. He’s a real talented dude. I’ve been listening to him probably since I was a freshman in college. I know what type of beats he sounds good on as far as the tempo and as far as what type of vibe on the beats that he would gravitate towards. I sent him a ton of beats and he took a bunch and maybe out of every seven or eight, he picked, like, two and then recorded on them and sent them back. I wasn’t in the studio with him but he would send them back and it was always pretty crazy what he came up with. I pretty much sent him all of my new shit that I was making and he picked the ones that he was feeling and he laid them down. It all came out pretty good as far as I’m concerned.

When you send out beats, you have your idea of what artists would sound good on and they have their own ideas. Do you feel like Copy picked the best beats or did you have others you wished he’d taken?

There were a couple of them that when I make them, I think, “Oh, wow, everyone’s gonna want this one” or whatever. There were one or two that he said were crazy and he planned on using those and I was excited to hear the finished product but he didn’t use those. There were a few of those. But of the ones he picked, I’m pretty happy with the way they sound. It’s a good mix of him picking ones that I really felt strongly about.

Is it a little intimidating sending music to someone that you’ve been a fan of for a long time?

At first it was. It’s like, ‘Oh, wow, what if he doesn’t like my shit?’ He was hitting me up on Facebook and it was cool. We were going back and forth but the first time I sent him, like, fifteen beats and I was wondering about what if he didn’t like any. But then we did a freestyle for HipHopDX and it came out good and then we did another one. Then there weren’t any inhibitions at that point.

The “Workahol” beat was something I hadn’t heard from you before in your other productions. Did you feel like that was a departure from your usual sound?

Nah, it was different. It was a different tempo. It was a little bit slower. I talked to my partner in crime, Vanderslice, and he said I always do beats that sound like you could murder somebody to. I tried to branch out with Copy since he’s not talking about killing people and robbing people. There’s nothing wrong with talking about that. But I was looking for different types of vibes and that’s one of the ones I came up with.

Did you surprise yourself at all with that beat?

When I made it, I knew someone was going to want this and he said right away that he wanted it. As soon as I sent it out, ten minutes later, he said he needed this. When I heard the sample and then as soon as I started chopping it up, I knew it was going to be pretty good.

I love the gritty, dirty Stu Bangas sound but also hear your production growing. How do you see yourself maturing as a producer?

I’m becoming more than just samples and drums. That’s what I started with, just chopping samples and chopping drum breaks. And now I’m trying to get more into different types of synths on the beats and trying to make the overall sound quality bigger and better and trying to get some major label placements. There’s a couple of guys talking to me and Vanderslice who shop beats to major label guys. If that happens, good. If not, no big deal. I just do it because I like to do it and working with talented artists. That will continue, going forward.

I just want to keep on making dope music. I figure the rest will take care of itself. I’m not too concerned with chasing big names. I just want to make dope music. The other stuff, I’m not concerned with.

Is it a challenge getting beats heard with how many producers are out there today?

Not too much. There’s a lot of competition, but you just have to catch the rappers at the right time. I get pretty good feedback and I just try to pay attention to what guys are working on stuff. That’s what the internet is good for. I know what guys are working on projects and I’ll send something to them. I’ll put certain things aside for guys when I know what they’re looking for, specifically.

You and Blaq Poet did an album together, Blaq Poet Society, last spring. What was it like working with Poet on that?

It was pretty crazy, man. I’ve been listening to Poet since he was on Tommy Boy and Screwball and “Who Shot Rudy” and all that stuff. I never thought I’d be working with him. Working with him was good. He’s a nice guy. He’s pretty straightforward. That project was kind of like my baby and it came out how I envisioned it, as far as the whole horror movie theme to it. Putting it together with him and Vanderslice was like a dream come true and being thoroughly involved in the process of making the record.

What are you working on next?

Vanderslice and I linked up with a label out in Virginia called Man Bites Dog Records. We’re putting out our producer record called Diggerz With Attitude. It’s all our production. We’ve got Roc Marciano on it. Alchemist is rapping on it. Evidence, Ill Bill, Vinnie Paz is on it, Poet’s on it. There’s a bunch of other guys. So we’re doing that and we’re almost done with a whole record with Smiley the Ghetto Child. We’re almost done with that and that’s all me and Vanderslice’s beats. And we’re about halfway done with the Wais P record and me and Esoteric are about a quarter of a way done with the whole record. And I did a joint for Ill Bill’s next solo record that’s out this way and I did one for Vinnie Paz’s next record that has Mobb Deep on it, and I’m super-excited about that because I’m huge fans of those dudes. I got a few records on Chino XL’s project and I already heard back on that. I’m just trying to make beats and get them on other people’s records and I’m always looking to do more projects.

Can you take us through the making of a Stu Bangas beat?

First, I find a dope sample and lately, I’ve been so busy with my nine-to-five and I got a kid now so Vanderslice will hook me up with some samples. I would say 80% of my samples come from him. He’s the best dude I know at picking samples. I’ll trade some stuff with him for some samples and after I get some stuff I like, I’ll probably just throw it in Pro Tools, the part that I want to use for the beat, and then I’ll add some synths and bass over it, speed it up or work on the tempo and find the right drums I want to use for it.

What equipment do you use?

I’m still using the MPC 2000XL. I don’t think I’ll probably ever switch from that. I’m too comfortable with that system itself and then I got a Korg keyboard I just got that’s pretty sweet. I have a Micro-Korg that I’m still working with to put stuff over the samples and Pro Tools to record.

I finally figured out where you got your email handle, Thornton Melon, from. Shouts out to Rodney Dangerfield.

Back to School! (laughs) That’s like a classic movie. It’s really cheesy and campy but that dude really cracks me up in that movie for some reason.

Do people usually get that reference?

Nobody ever gets it. I was sending Jaysaun beats a couple of years ago and he was asking me who the fuck was Thornton Melon and I told him not to worry about it, it was a long story! (laughs) Nobody ever gets it.

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3. Roc C Interview

5. Mitchy Slick – One of the gulliest new school left-coasters has his own iPod and iPad app! Yes, it’s true, now you can enjoy Mitchy Slick whenever you want. Normally I would be against rappers having their own apps, but in Mitchy’s case, I’ll gladly make an exception.

4. Dutch New York – Has anyone else been paying attention to Dutchie killing it? His mixtape No Relief is fire, as are his freestyles. Some of you may remember a track I produced for him last spring called “Til They Put Me Under.” Now that No Relief is out, Dutch and I are working on a project together. We’re about four songs in and it’s sounding crazy, and as my own hardest critic, you know this isn’t on some old school Source five-mic ish.

3. Last Emperor – I’m about to start putting his face on milk cartons. Where is this guy? One of my favorite albums is his only one, Music, Magic, Myth. Tell me this isn’t fire and J Pizzle will have to smack the Soulja Boy out ‘cha.

2. Mike Beck – It’s a tragedy that he’s not around anymore, but thanks to the efforts of Suge White, his music is still around. Not my favorite music from Mike Beck, but dude could spit and it sucks he’s not here.

1. Everyone survives party at 40/40 – I get emails from this guy a lot about the parties he goes to and how he interacts with celebrities. Normally I don’t read them in their entirety, but sometimes they’re entertaining, usually for their consistent quality of being in awe of d-grade reality TV stars and washed up celebrities on their way to becoming d-grade reality stars. Slow news day today, so I read this email about some guy going to a party at 40/40 and seeing Jay-Z in its entirety, and I’m grateful I did. Love the closing of the email. “Uneventful night – no gunshots or arrests even thought (sic) the booze was flowing.” Hemingway would have killed for a line like that! How do you think the conversation with his mom went when he got home?

- Did you have a good time tonight?
- Eh. It was kinda boring.
- Sorry to hear that.
- Yeah, no gunfire. No one died. It sucks. I even stayed ’til the end just to see if anyone would get shot.
- Well, hopefully someone got arrested.
- No, not even arrested! I was really, really hoping too.

You know it’s a bad night when you go somewhere and you don’t get to witness gun shots or arrests.

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5. Paula Deen has diabetes – I know, I know. Shocking. When your philosophy of cooking is doubling the amount of butter, sugar, or both, only bad things can happen. Last year I tried to surprise wifey by making her Paula Deen’s hot chocolate, which is basically a bar of pure chocolate melted in heavy cream. By the time it was done melting and simmering, it poured from the pot like a heavy maple syrup that would have satisfied Bubbles’ worst cravings. Interesting, too, how Paula’s repping for the diabetics now when her cooking causes diabetes. You can’t switch from Team Obesity to Team Diabetes just like that. It’d be like a rapper going from a corrections officer to rapping about selling drugs.

4. Crooked I – Is everyone on Crooked I’s team illiterate? From his rhymes, he’s a really smart dude, but I’m guessing he was never yearbook editor in high school. Peep the show flyer and look for the one glaring error. Unless it’s a new member of COB or Crooked I just got down with Sesame Street, I don’t think there’s a Croooked I, although that could be the Coookie Monster’s outcast brother.

3. Meyhem Lauren – Is there a better example out there of hard work paying off? Dude’s been on his grind for a long time and it’s finally paying off. I’m really excited to hear his work with Buckwild, especially for an album, and Just Blaze. Props to the homie J-Love for recognizing talent early!

2. Dr. Dre – Has it been figured out who wrote his verse for “Popped Off,” his collab with T.I? I’m guessing it’s Eminem. And did he really say “Girl, I hope your vaginal/Has endurance, ‘cause it’s about to get tragical.” What does that even mean? I’ll be the first to admit I never had a ton of game, but I’ve never told someone that it’s about to get real tragical for them and I imagine if I did, they would have immediately started scanning the apartment for the best exit. I can’t even see the guys on Maury who shave “Not the Daddy” in the back of their heads using a line like this at Applebee’s karaoke night, so it’s a little disconcerting to think that someone who’s a doctor has an outlook like this.

1. Planet Asia – I know it’s a little soon to be saying this, but I think I’m liking PA’s new album Black Belt Theatre even better than Pain Language, his collaborative album with DJ Muggs. Like Pain Language, there’s a consistently dark mood that occasionally lifts but never goes away, and it’s an album that probably never would have been possibly had Pain Language never came out. Definitely an album worth checking when it drops.

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